Reply to Ryan on What’s Wrong With Islam/Muslims?

The true nature of Islam: a continuing criminal enterprise which propagates perpetual warfare for profit while camouflaged by a  false mantle of religion, is mired in a deep and extensive swamp of denial. I repeatedly attack this issue because it is necessary to drain the swamp one drop at a time.

What’s Wrong With Islam/Muslims? at Islamophobia: Exposing Malicious Malarkey received a visit from Ryan, who left a comment which merits a  better reply  than a simple comment.  Likening my analysis to dog excrement, he  made three points. [Typographical errors original.]

1.) Jihad means “struggle”. That is the literal arabic interpretation of the word. What is more, there have bbeen cases of jihad being conducted AGAINST OTHER MUSLIMS. Not to mentioon that there are muslim scholars who disagree with the definition provided in reliance of a traveller (which is one of many jurisprudence manuals). And there are four types of jihad, and jihad follows set rules (don’t kill civillians, don’t attack civillian targets). 

2.) You claim that 60:1 is clear proof muslims aren’t allowed to befriend non musims. verses 60:8 and 60:9 disagree. There are even verses in the quran which state that jews and christians can go to heaven.

3.) You make the mistake of assuming that all islamic manuals agree on what defines jihad. The truth is a hell of lot more complex, and there are scholars who have had differing interpetations. Just because a few guys have that interpreation odesn’t mean all scholars do.

  1. When words are translated into actions, the actions give us the clearest possible indication of their meaning.  Turn to page 385 of Guillaume’s translation of The Life of Muhammad, where the story of  Amr b.al-Jamuh   is retold. “He came to the apostle and told him that his sons wanted to keep him back and prevent his joining the army, ‘Yet by God, I hope to tread the heavenly garden despite my lameness.’ The apostle said, ‘God has excused you, and Jihad is not incumbent on you;’ and to his sons he said, ‘You need not prevent him; perhaps God will favour him with martyrdom,’ so he went along with him and was killed at Uhud.” A parallel story is found in Sahih Bukhari 4.52.84, explaining 4:95, which exempts the lame and blind.
    There are 178 instances of “raid” in the Life of Muhammad, and 27 instances of “conquest”.
  2. A search for “take not” in the Noble Qur’an [Hilali & Khan] returns 7 Surahs; these are the ayat prohibiting positive relations with Kuffar: 3:118, 4: 89144, 5: 51, 57, 9:23, 60: 1, 13.  Moe curses us in 2:161 & 9:30Sahih Muslim 6665 & 6666 say that Allah will take Muslims out of the fire, replacing them with Jews and Christians.
  3. Jihad is covered in Ch 30 of Al-Risala, Maliki Fiqh and Al-Hedaya, Vol II, Book IX, Hanifi Fiqh.  Which of them contradicts Reliance significantly? This article samples 4 schools of jurisprudence.  Will you accept the opinion of Prof. Salih Al-Fawzan?  For a broader sample of ancient and modern Fiqh concerning jihad, see the Jihad in Fiqh chapter of FOMIJihad.chm.

The meaning of jihad is not dependent on any single scholar. It becomes clear when we perceive the congruent pattern formed by Moe’s recitation & sunnah.

Surah Al-Anfal treats of perpetual wars of aggression against pagans, the termination of which is conditioned on the cessation of resistance and a global monopoly for Islam.  (8:39:1) And fight them waqātilūhum

Surah At-Taubah treats of perpetual wars of aggression against ‘people of the book’, the termination of which is conditioned on subjugation and extortion.
(9:29:1) Fight qātilū

Get a God blessed clue!

waqātilūhum (وَقَٰتِلُوهُمْ) verb (2)
2nd person masculine plural (form III) imperative verb (فعل أمر)
  • (2:193:1) … And fight (against) them …
  • (8:39:1) … And fight them …
qātilū (قَٰتِلُوا۟) verb (3)
2nd person masculine plural (form III) imperative verb (فعل أمر)
  • (3:167:7) … fight …
  • (9:29:1) … Fight …
  • (9:123:4) … Fight …

Moe said something about that.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.” Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, “O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?” He replied, “Whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’, faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have.”

The Qur’an contains two parallel fight-until loops and the hadith has a similar loop reflecting them.  Is that mere coincidence?  Get a God blessed clue!

The first raid: on Waddan 281
Hamza’s raid to the coast 283
Raid on Buwat 285
Raid on al-‘Ushayra 285
Raid on al-Kharrar 286
Raid on Safawan 286
Fighting in the sacred month 286
The change of the Qibla 289
Battle of Badr 289
Zaynab sets out for Medina 314
Abu’l-‘As accepts Islam 316
‘Umayr b. Wahb accepts Islam 318
The chapter of The Spoils 321
Raid on B. Sulaym 360
Raid called al-Sawiq 361
Raid on Dhu Amarr 362
Raid on al-Furu’ 362
Attack on B. Qaynuqa’ 363
Raid on al-Qarada 364
Killing of Ka’b b. al-Ashraf 364
Muhayyisa and Huwayyisa 369
Battle of Uhud 370
The Quran on UQud 391

That is a significant sample of the table of contents of Part III of The Life of Muhammad.  What was Moe commanded to do?  What did he do??  Do you remain clueless???

Muslim apologists will assert that Moe only fought defensively, citing 2:190 and  22:39.   What? Does “fight them until” only apply after they attack Muslims?  Get a God blessed clue!

Moe dictated and dispatched extortion letters.  This is among the most explicit thereof.

LETTER TO THE CHIEFS OF AQABA 

In the name of ALLAH the compassionate, the Merciful

From Muhammad, Prophet of Allah

To the People of Aqaba

May peace be on you. I praise Allah who is one and except whom there is nobody else to be worshipped.

I do not intend to wage war against you till you receive my written reason for it. It is better for you, either to accept Islam or agree to pay Jiziya and consent to remain obedient to Allah, His prophet and his messengers. My messengers deserve honour. Treat them with respect. Whatever pleases my messengers, will also please me.

These people have been informed of the orders about Jiziya. If you desire that there should be peace and security in the world, obey Allah and His Prophet. Thereafter none in Arabia and Ajam (Iran) shall dare cast an evil eye on you. But the rights of Allah and His Prophet can at no time be waived.

If you do not accept these terms and set them aside, I do not need your presents and gifts. In that case, I shall have to wage war (to establish peace and security). Its result would be that the big ones shall be killed in war and the commoners shall be taken prisoners.

I assure you that I am a true Prophet of Allah. I believe in Allah, and His Books, and His Prophets and am of the faith that Maseeh (Messiah) son of Mariam (Mary), is a Prophet of Allah and His word.

Hurmala (Raziallah AnhoA.) who brought to me 3 wasaq (about 6 quintals) of barley, recommended your case. Had it not been in compliance of the command of Allah and the good opinion of Hurmala for you, it would not have been necessary for me to correspond with you and instead of it, there would have been a war. If you will obey my messengers, you shall immediately have my support and the help and support of everyone who is attached to me.

My messengers are Shuraih-beel, Obaiy, Hurmala and Hurais (Raziallah AnhoA.) and whatever decision they take in respect of you, shall be acceptable to me.

Your people are under the protection and responsibility of Allah and His Prophet.

Supply provisions to the Jews of Maqna, for their journey to their country.

If you accept obedience, may peace be on you.’

Seal: Allah’s Prophet Muhammad .

Moe sent an extortion letter to the Jews at the Khaibar Oasis. Then he sent his army. Who started that war? Did the Jews attack first?

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4 Responses to “Reply to Ryan on What’s Wrong With Islam/Muslims?”

  1. Reply to Ryan on What's Wrong With Islam/Muslims? « Islamophobia … | Daily News 24x7 World News Says:

    […] More: Reply to Ryan on What's Wrong With Islam/Muslims? « Islamophobia … […]

  2. Ryan Says:

    1.) Both were made AFTER the meccans tried to kill him, and after he sen t his followers to ethiopia. It was a WIN OR DIE situation. When Judea was established did the jews try to find a place peacefully? No. they fought till they were victorius. If someone attacks you, yeah you attack till you win. the quran also said that if an enemy makes a move to peace, accept it.

    2.) 3:118: This was during the time of war, when there were people actively trying to infiltrate and destroy the muslims. In world war II would you have trusted an american officer with a german name?

    4:89 the fact that it makes a distinction between no longer being a muslim and leaving the community shows that there was actually a difference. During the time between when muhammed made medina his hq and before he conquered Mecca (when he was in a strong position) a bedoin left the group. Muhammed simply responded with a statment saying (the weak will leave the strong will stay). oh an dyou ignored the verse immediately afterwards. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).” In short, if they don’t actively fight you, don’t hurt them even if they aren’t fighting for you either. That changes the whole dynamic.

    144: given that this was made during a time when thje unbelievers where trying to kill him, this is common sense.

    5:51: other translators yield words such as patrons, protectors, all of which are UNEVEN relationships.

    5:57: 0ther translations imply Gaurdians,

    5:57: those who mock the religion. which back then was the same as “trying to kill you”. two verses down they acknowledge taht there are are jews and christioans who follow the word of god
    60:1: refers to uneven friendships (another possible translation is “patron”).

    as for the jews: Bailing on an ally during a war is the equivelent of treason. they also refused to help some of muhammed Jewish allies.

    you really do have no frigging clue what you are talkinga bout

  3. Ryan Says:

    I looked into the khaybar. they wre sheltering the banu nadir, who had hired other tribes to attack the muslims. they were hardly innocent. also the historical context for 9 29 is when they tried to betray muhammad.

  4. dajjal Says:

    Moe used pretexts, not always legitimate. The fact is that he sent out extortion letters demanding conversion; threatening invasion.

    9:29 is a clear command. It is general, not specific to a particular tribe, location or time period. It is in the form of a fight-until loop, with submission & extortion as compound terminal conditions.

    Moe’s real motive was money. Turn to 8:1. 41 & 67. Nothing is left to the imagination.

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